Visual vs "Visual Kei"

[Do As Eternity 6]

i kindof think that visual kei is just an immature phase before growing into your own thing. L'arc is an example, as well as Luna Sea, Dir en grey, etc. a lot of bands that are strongly associated with that scene end up growing up out of it. i bet in a few years bands like Alice Nine and The Gazette will be doing the same thing.

.. What? What about the visual kei greats that actually stayed visual throughout their entire career like Lareine, Malice Mizer, or JILS? Are you calling their entire discography byproducts of an "immature phase" ? VK, to some bands, is more than just dressing pretty to gain an audience(like trash such as Gazette and A9. Pure garbage) It's an art.

Malice Mizer was always immature. i cant take a band that dresses up as winged demon/angel things seriously at all, and neither can the general public.

LMAO xD

And it would be preposterous for anyone to suggest that it is somewhat immature for what Dir en grey does/did and what Malice Mizer did.

=]

[Culo]

Wearing extravagant/goofy costumes doesn't make a band immature.
I mean if that would be the case then every band should be wearing suits like some office empoylee... MATURE KEI!! (or kurofuku XP)

[Do As Eternity 6]

why not just wear normalish clothes for mature kei! or would that just be normal kei or people kei.... hmmm although every band wearing suits sounds like fun then every band shall be kurofuku y/y >_> <_< >_> *hides* (i'm very bored indeed)

i wouldn't say that wearing extravagant/goofy costumes is immature but it is kind of hard to take seriously at least for me anyway. It's just a little over the top for my taste but to each their own.

[Culo]

And you know, Peter Gabriel used to look like this in Genesis during the 70s
http://mitkadem.homestead.com/files/genesis_petergabriel_foxtrot_paris_januar1973.jpg

and noone would say Genesis was a immature band 

[klavierbarrette]

i lol'd

never seen that pic of him before.

[signal to noise]

You can't take Malice Mizer seriously.. But you can take Dir en grey's ridiculous, prepubescent angst seriously? When Kyo cuts himself and throws his body around on stage like a 3 year old child throwing a fucking tantrum? Oh, yeah. I think that's way more easier to mock than a band dressing up in elaborate costumes to tell a story (as cheesy and sappy as that story may be)

so... big sports macsot outfits have a story but self mutilation doesnt?

i think Kyo cutting himself during his songs show more emotion than Gackt coming out in a Grimace outfit by wires.

[Do As Eternity 6]

lmao xD me neither ...that's interesting

[yuna001]

You can't take Malice Mizer seriously.. But you can take Dir en grey's ridiculous, prepubescent angst seriously? When Kyo cuts himself and throws his body around on stage like a 3 year old child throwing a fucking tantrum? Oh, yeah. I think that's way more easier to mock than a band dressing up in elaborate costumes to tell a story (as cheesy and sappy as that story may be)

so... big sports macsot outfits have a story but self mutilation doesnt?

i think Kyo cutting himself during his songs show more emotion than Gackt coming out in a Grimace outfit by wires.

.. I wish Gackt dressed up as Grimace 

[Alice the Sister]

It's not really a question of whether 'that band' is doing immature things or not. It's a costume, and part of a performance. I'm just comparing the two. It's all kinda silly really, but I mean that's what makes it kinda interesting, you know?

Though compared to malice mizer, one has to admit that Dir en grey is far less childish, IMO.

Let's not even get started on oshare.

At any rate, I think some bands use these "gimmicks" (whether it be face paint and wings or cut wrists and vomit blood acrobitcs raping prostitutes) to strengthen the image their band has going on. Like some punk bands had the mohawks and orange hair in the old days. Well that's just what these guys do. I dunno, I guess I wouldn't really call Visual Kei "immature" although often times it does seems like the bands the use less visuals put more stock into the music, and the ones that put too much stock into the visuals don't put much into the music.

There are obvious exceptions though. And sometimes bands will even try to have a theme to go with their music, and their image...but just because a VK band attempts a theme doesn't make their music good even still sometimes.

[Culo]

Wait, someone define immature.

I got these two:
1. Not fully grown or developed.
2. Marked by or suggesting a lack of normal maturity

Malice Mizer was more than developed, especially during the merveilles times when they had all the money they (..er, Columbia) wanted to prepare the stage and all, and while it isn't my favorite Malice Mizer era at all, I think their music was developed enough.
"Normal Maturity", now in this one i'll refer to Dir en grey. Self mutilation is normal maturity? Anyone would associate it with emo, angsty teenagers being rebel against their parents. How mature is that?

About "childish", what's wrong with being childish? I don't mean stupid like the oshare bands, but if a band isn't taking them enterly serious or overdramatized then that's perfectly fine to me - actually better and more fun.

It's like with videogames (and many other things but I remembered this one example I've read once in some VG forum).
People often talk about how Nintendo games are childish and immature, and that games with violence are real mature and adult.
But in reality, these people who talk about "adult games" are just teenagers who want to look tough and, again, rebel.
People who like games just because they enjoy them, will play any game that's good, wether it haves violence or not.
I don't want to turn this into a vg war or anything, by all means XD but all this "Dir en grey is mature" talk made me remember that.

[Alice the Sister]

I never said that there was anything wrong with being childish. Just because someone states their observations, doesn't mean they're trying to slam it. XD

Come on tonberry kids, don't live up to the hype.

[Culo]

How boring

[Karasu]

I'd like to know how come every discussion always in the end....goes to Dir en grey.


I wouldn't call Visual Kei immature, but what I would call it is shallow and empty, at least from 2002 and now. Before that time, it was theatrical and mezmerizing, and the music had quality, but now it's become almost a franchise and become so refined, that it's not about the theatrics and music, but more about 'how multi-colored can I get?' and 'How pretty can I look, but still "try" to make music that's not even good to begin with?' At least back in the day, the music had substance, had integrity, and now...its hardly that. It's like fast food, taste kinda good coming down, but 30 mins. later, you're in the bathroom shitting it out, feeling disgusted and embarrassed you even had it. Well that's what VK's become. Shit.

Which brings me to my first point, some bands are thinking smart and leaving that scene, and focusing more on the image. Image is more important than how visual you are.

[カレン]

Which brings me to my first point, some bands are thinking smart and leaving that scene, and focusing more on the image. Image is more important than how visual you are.

...Um, what?

[signal to noise]

Which brings me to my first point, some bands are thinking smart and leaving that scene, and focusing more on the image. Image is more important than how visual you are.

...Um, what?

ssshhh it kindof makes sense.