LJs, file-sharing, and being an elitist.

[Alice the Sister]

Notice how my topics come in threes?

HMmmm......................?

Anyways....

I don't know if other communities are like this for file-sharing, but it seems like there aren't as many rotation sites anymore, but instead there are more livejournal communities have sprouted up. The behaviour of most of these "communities" seem to go against the idea of file-sharing. It has almost taken the fun out of it.

To me, file-sharing is supposed to be about sharing. Not hoarding. On places like soulseek you run into people who are "trade only" which is also detrimental to file-sharing. See, the point of file-sharing is to make music widely available. You know, share what you have. And for the most part on soulseek that seems to be the case. A lot of it is about finding the right people, and making the right friends and all that stuff.

But then what are livejournals compared to that? Are they even really communties? If it is, it's a community ruled by fear. Not about community at all. You have to comment or else you get banned? On some of them or something. Not allowed to share the files you get from there? What?! That's insane!! If you don't want people sharing your files then don't share them in the first place. You're only fooling yourself otherwise. The purpose of file-sharing is to share the music. I can't stress that enough. It's about introducing other people to new or old music, and exploring musical tastes and growing them. You can't do that with road blocks in the way.

Why do they do it? Because they like to have "control" ? Because they like to have big egos? Because they're afraid of getting caught? Or they just want more hits? I can't say for sure, I don't know these people. But what I'm concerned with is the point about the communities. It's not cool when you see threads in the direct downloads with people whining that you "Stole" it from an LJ (see how dumb that sounds). They say that you have the rights to share "your" files. But it kinda goes against the spirit of file-sharing to pick and choose. If you're gonna share stuff, then share stuff. Unless you got computer problems that prevent you, which is understandable, or you don't want to wave a red flag to the cops saying you're a bootlegger. But come on, what's the point of sharing anything then?

Share your music, let other people hear things they might not have heard before. Share that new single or whatever. People will leech. People will be ungrateful. But it's not always they're fault. Sometimes you make it such and elitist sorta thing that they don't want to comment because they don't like you. It's almost like you don't give them any good reason to be respectful, and it just spirals out of control. You don't share, and then people get pissed off. You finally share after you've decided your desperate fans have waited an unknown amount of time that seems reasonable to wait for "your" wonderful files. And then you wonder why you get people just grabbing them. Cause you're not sharing. You're not really helping anyone.

I posted this in the serious music discussion, cause you can't really say anything meaningful in those download threads when everything is already heated and it's just a bunch of "he said she said" crap.

Rah.

[Do As Eternity 6]

gawd i don't think i could've said it better ...it's like you clawed into my mind and ripped out all the things i find hard to get out properly without sounding stupid. >.< it's so good i think i almost cried

The purpose of file-sharing is to share the music. I can't stress that enough. It's about introducing other people to new or old music, and exploring musical tastes and growing them. You can't do that with road blocks in the way.

exactly >.<


also when it comes to crediting something... i don't really care for it myself but i make sure to credit those who i get my files from and who rip the files because some people can get crazy about and also i think in general it can be a nice thing to do along with saying thank you and what not but for myself personally...i really don't care for credit or thanks for anything...what makes me the most happy is when i look at my accounts on MU or MF and see the number of people downloading my files even if they don't say thank you (and the vast majority don't) xD and knowing that i spread smth that i believe sounds good and hopefully someone will enjoy ...that's the love of filesharing

Why do they do it? Because they like to have "control" ? Because they like to have big egos? Because they're afraid of getting caught? Or they just want more hits? I can't say for sure, I don't know these people.

i think it's the last part basically they want to get more people to join their comms, more traffic, blah blah blah...especially if it's a new community ...at least the was the explanation i got some time ago ... however i happen to think a bit of kindness can go a lot farther than bitching someone out if you want people to become apart of you're community...

instead of hoarding files ...you can go to other forums your self and post a few files...show people what you've got and refer them back to your comm for more...then people wouldn't have to "steal" from your comm and distribute it...other people have done this and gotten members for their forums, comms, and what not...i just don't understand why some places want to act like some super secret upper crust society >_> even if they have files before everyone else i refuse to join a place like that because in truth the file will find it's way somewhere else anyway or someone else will eventually get it and upload it

[nijuu_rasen]

I think you two have definitely got it spot on, I'm a complete hopeless mess when it comes to html or website stuff, but I used to enjoy going on old rotations, and sample interesting bands (requested a few files, but I don't think they were put up haha). I u/l stuff on here, hoping people will appreciate it, and I appreciate the efforts other people go to to post on here, but I am not part of any Livejournal music-sharing communities, because I suppose, it makes it more difficult to share?? which goes against the whole point of sharing, if i'm making any sense XD

I don't upload for any ego... I love letting people see what I like/ have so that they might enjoy it too, so, pls enjoy ^-^xxx

[baka_neko]

I'll try and give you as much as I can of a view from the "other side". I used to be an elitist back in the day. I wasn't much of the "OMG CREDITZ" kind but the "OMG RAREZ NO TRADEZ" kind. For me, it was mostly an ego thing... I thought that if I had files nobody else could get then I would be "cool" among the trading community(on slsk and winmx). I was like this for maybe.. 2 years or so, but have since changed after realizing how stupid and selfish it was. Although I do have a lot of stuff I would love to share, doing so would threaten my ability to get such things in the first place. Lets say I'm trading with a Japanese list trader for a rare cd then up it here or an LJ(a lot more of these people know about tonberry and LJ comms than you'd think). Relating this to me, they would be less likely to trade with me in the future if at all. Oh.. I've also received threats from certain users that if I share stuff then they'll go and tell a bunch of the bigger list traders not to trade with me. From an elitists point of view it would make sense not to share then, no? Not that I'm condoning such a thing(since I REALLY love sharing music), but once you become an elitist you sorta lock yourself into it.

[凸(｡☉౪ ⊙｡)▁▇▀▀▀～～～卍]

yah, i think for alot of people its a phase... there are still alot of people that are elitist and dont share at all unless they trade, and they know (as well as we know) who they are. I can understand if people bought somethingfor 1million dollars and not wanting to share it because of the cost! but if they dont share it cos its rare and they just want to trade it around...then thats pretty stupid.. like im not innocent here, ive hoarded my lolita23q vobs and havent shared. but i might do once i get settledin this new country... but anyways. i think its a phase. some elitists dont like being elitist but as baka_neko said, u have to be elitist to deal with other elitists. its like a society between them.  umm what else. Also i think the whole credit thing isnt good, like for me, on slsk when i credit my files, its only cos if people want more of tht band or more files. then they can chat with me etc, so they know i ripped it and have more to share. The attention can be good, but u get over it....

what else. hmmm,  ifstuff is shared, it should be able to be shared anywhere i think no matter how rare it is. UGH thats whats so shit with Vkei, all tht rare stuff and live only! its partly the musicians and labels fault for creating elitism... oo;

anyways not all elitists are bad, just some. anywho, this is finally a good thread to discuss stuff in:D! <3 alice

[klavierbarrette]

^ i agree not all elitists are bad, but i can think of a lot more bad ones than good...though i think some 'elitists' don't really register as that to me.  it's more of an attitude to me than hoarding files.

baka_neko is very nice with sharing though. he just waits until it's not rare anymore (right? or am i thinking of someone else), unlike a lot of people who think it's theirs and only theirs. >__<

i'm not innocent either, i don't think anyone who shares/distributes files can be.

i personally don't like when a friend or someone gives me a file and is all 'don't share it, i'll get in trouble'.  it's not really the deal of not sharing it, it's that i need to put all the stuff i 'can't share' in a different folder or something? wth >__>  half the stuff i have on my computer i can't even remember where i got it...unless i look at the tags

[ipetcats]

I used to be amongst the bitch crowd, enjoying my spot on the top notch... I remember when I got over it and just ... Hahaha, on slsk, I would download all the rare stuff, like the Pumpkin Head VOBs (trust me, they were hard back in the day), tours and shit... Then, I would let everyone download, regardless what they had, even if they weren't sharing files.  I'll tell you, it pissed a lot of people off, haha.

Now, I buy, rip and share then I WANT everyone to share my rips.  I love poking around and see my shit around town.  It's a great feeling.

I guess it's the revelation of, "Why in the hell am I sharing if I have to go through twenty rules before letting people download?"

[凸(｡☉౪ ⊙｡)▁▇▀▀▀～～～卍]

haha yeah! whats worse is when people cant share something because they got it from someone whogot it from someone who also got it from another person that said it wasnt to be spread. its like underground illicit sharing.

[ipetcats]

haha yeah! whats worse is when people cant share something because they got it from someone whogot it from someone who also got it from another person that said it wasnt to be spread. its like underground illicit sharing.

It is.
I think their egos get so huge, since they're falling in love with their own "legend," they create this separate world.
It's awkward.

[Do As Eternity 6]

o.O wow i feel enlightened...is this the way it really works huh...thank you for the insight cuz i don't think i really understood it before >.<

[xbiinex]

To me it's quite simple: If I upload something publicly on a place like this one I don't have the illusion to be able to control what is happening to my files afterwards - who will take them and maybe share somewhere else or whatever. If there is something I don't want to share I will not upload it anywhere and not talk about it either. It would bother me if people kept asking for it while I don't want to give it out.

As far as crediting goes I have nothing against people crediting me if they distribute my files somewhere else. But I would never insist on it. First, I can't control it anyway and secondly, I know how it is having a whole lot of stuff downloaded from different places on the internet. From all what I have I'm sure about 90 % I don't remember after a while who I got it from. I may still remember where I downloaded it but I'd certainly forget who was the uploader. And even if I remember that how would I know if it was that person's rip or if he/she also just got it from somewhere else.

Saying thank you in the forum is a nice thing to me but not a must. Very often I myself don't say thank you for all that I download myself. Occasionally I do but just saying thank you for everything I download doesn't make too much sense to me. Like when I see that 1000 people downloaded my file I know my upload was a success and a lot of people enjoyed it. Seeing that I get enough satisfaction for my ego. There will be no need to have a 50 pages thread for it where every leecher just has to say thank you.

What I dislike most are the people who keep talking about what they have but don't want to share. Just to make others envious and make them beg for it - and feel privileged for having something the others don't have. If you don't want to spread it enjoy what you have and keep your mouth shut.

But I do not quite agree with Alice the Sister that soulseek is so difficult. Apart from a few 'trade only' users which I just ignore I never had the feeling I'd first have to make the right friends and connections before people will let me download their stuff. Before joining slsk I just made sure I had some reasonable amount of files to share and - aside from a few exceptions - I've never had problems downloading from others. I also let everyone download from me as long as I see that they share themselves. I just keep banning all those 'no files shared' leechers because they are obstacles in every filesharing community, people who are too excessively greedy or people who start to insult me for no obvious reason.

[Culo]

I always thought the same, I hate people who think they own the music jsut because they got the mp3z, I never understood how you can feel superior just for getting some files for free, you didn't even put any effort on it, you just sit there on your computer and downloaded your files while playing some free mmorpg.

The whole trading mafia sounds ridiculous and not serious.

Actually, for me it's almost the opposite, if I get a rare CD (live only, out of print, etc) and I think other people will enjoy listening,  I'll share.
If it's a new release or an easy CD to buy of a band I like, get your ass moving to get some money and support the band.

Also it's very stupid to be an elitist about "rare" files because sooner or later they'll get spread, it will never be rare, what's rare it's the actual CD; not the mp3.
CD= physical
mp3= virtual
ie, you really have nothing.
Actually the most rare stuff in mp3 I can think of is from bands most people won't really care (ie, Klein Kaiser's "jorou"... I stronly doubt any of you even know about it, and that's why it was so rare to get in mp3). So with not sharing something like that you're just being mean to fellow fans of the band you like. I would be happy to find more Klein Kaiser fans for example, but really there are almost none.

baka_neko, please explain more about japanese tradez0rz lurking tonberry and LJs XD they really take the time to register here and patrol everyday to control their files aren't shared? LOL

[凸(｡☉౪ ⊙｡)▁▇▀▀▀～～～卍]

on behalf of baka_neko ^

its true... well they dont patrol...but if they see a rare file spread everywhere. then they know  someone probably shared it when they arent suppose to... its like a community among the elitists and some do go around tonberry and lj / slsk making sure their file isnt spread... i know of a few... and they arent even japanese. X_X

[xbiinex]

I'm sure with a lot of those ultra rare files the most important point for collectors is to have the feeling of 'owning' something that others don't have. It doesn't even mean it's particularly good. Not everything that's rare must necessarily be very good.  People may not even really like the music. They mostly like them for being rare. To me it's no different from collecting rare stamps for example. The rare ones may not be the most beautiful ones but you feel proud when you own them irrespective of what they look like.

Just like Naja said if you are a real fan of some of these unknown bands I would guess it's more enjoyable to find other fans for discussion etc. by giving them access to this band's music than to keep it to yourself, sit alone in your room and just enjoy what nobody else knows.

On the other hand it's still a different story to me with releases where there is a great public interest amongst fans but the items are not freely accessible to everyone - like all those live only, fanclub only etc. releases.

I remember very well when Dir en grey's Despair in the Womb DVD was released. Everybody wanted it but knowing it was not sold publicly people would have to rely on those few people who had access to it. The most annoying part was all those people who would claim they had it sometimes even promising to rip and upload it (but never do) or just spread some screen caps or selected clips to get everybody excited. There were even fights about some screen caps that had been 'stolen' from somebody's LJ. How silly!!

To me it's kind of childish to gain your satisfaction out of teasing other fans this way 'cause at the end you have your precious DVD to yourself but you can't even discuss it with anybody because nobody else could watch it. That doesn't make sense to me.

Of course, I know nobody is obliged to share his thing with others. But if it's my intention to just keep it to myself I wouldn't announce in any public forum that I have it knowing very well that there are so many people out there who want it, too.

When - after watching this lousy game for some weeks - I managed to get hold of the thing myself I never thought twice about uploading it here to give everyone access to it. I'd rather be interested to hear other people's opinions and reviews of it than just watch it alone.

Meanwhile it has been spread quite a bit. People who downloaded it from here, ripped it and uploaded it elsewhere or just spread the download links. I don't care if people credit me or even know who had first uploaded it somewhere. Maybe there are also some rips from other sources by now. Who knows? Fact is that a lot of people have watched it by now and there can be a public discussion amongst fans. And that's exactly how I like it.

At the end even those elitists who wanted to keep it to themselves may benefit from the fact that they can share their thoughts and opinions with others. Well, that's just my guess.

[Champ213]

Files spread. One way or the other. It usually starts with some japanese guy buying and ripping the files and then they get passed through countless hands until they may end up on lj, and afterwards they get passed through another countless hands until they end up who-knows-where. (As I said elsewhere, most files on those livejournals aren't even ripped by the community owners.)

I gave up on checking where the files I upload go after posting years ago. It's useless. It's tiresome. There's no way to check if  the person uploading them got them directly from you anyway. As I said, it may have been passed through half a dozen hands already, new releases virtually spread like fire.

Some people will give you credit if they got it from you, fine. Some won't. Tough luck. Some will post a link to your original upload. But if the original upload is on some "selected members only" community where you need to have an active livejournal and need to say 'thanks' anytime or get banned, I wouldn't be surprised if people will repost it on more open forums.

And as for rare files: if you don't want them to spread, don't rip them. Don't share them. With anyone. Ever.
(And even then somebody else may rip and share it.)