What Visual Kei truly is...

[Kyο]

ObscureWarumono, Are you seriously that fucking stupid?

Yes I am thank you for noticing.
Are you seriously that fucking perceptive?

[凸(｡☉౪ ⊙｡)▁▇▀▀▀～～～卍]

just when i thought the arguing was over...

[Kyο]

just when i thought the arguing was over...

Well I'm done. If I get any rediculous replies, oh well,  they'll be taken care of in the morning.
For now, my energy drink has worn off and I'm about to crash. T-T
-wanders away-

[Vessicator]

God you fail at detecting sarcasm.

The wiki article has major errors in it and your interpretation of bis's band/music genre conflicts with the article itself. You said that bis moved from 'visual-kei to punk', but the article states that bis is a visual-kei band.


I categorize bis's genre based on the albums that I listened to (see "The only way I can see that you think bis is "pop-punk" is from their cover of Rancid's 'Ruby Soho'. Other than that, they're pretty pop-rock (eg. SEASON'S, Color of Mind, S.S.I.)") and using other bands as reference, like Ellegarden, Kra, and Henzel. I observe from their band setup to their music lyrics to their bass-lines and guitar riffs and obvious incorporation of Japanese street fashion and point to the fitting genre of oshare-kei.

If you cannot learn to categorize music by ear, or even understand the directly translated definition of 'visual-kei' and 'oshare-kei' then don't try to patronize. You can't show music appreciation, much less indulge as a sophist; you merely attempt to shove your beliefs down someone else's throat until you realize that they (unlike you) have a basis for their argument.

By the time you realize that, you cower back under the haven of 'subjectivity', as you believe the coined genres do not have a concrete definition, and the bands themselves can't be definitively categorized under said genres. Newsflash: they have. This thread is not intended to talk about the meaning of visual-kei, only what individuals THINK visual-kei 'truly is'.

There was no 'healthy discussion', now get the fuck out.

[カレン]

Haha, you keep saying get out like I actually care.

Nope, staying.

And if you want to go the fashion route, take a look at how they *actually* dress live, not promo pictures.

Oh and while you're at it, go to a Zoro live. Classic oshare right? Yea, I got my ass kicked in that moshpit.

I also never said they went from 'visual-kei to punk' glad you're reading me correctly. I said they possibly went from oshare to as-punk-as-you're-gonna-get-in-visual, which obviously isn't really punk.

[Vessicator]

Actually, yes I have seen pictures from the live. No, they dress more or less the same.

protip: every rock concert has a bunch of stupid kids that spin around pushing each other.

I said they possibly went from oshare to as-punk-as-you're-gonna-get-in-visual, which obviously isn't really punk.

Then you just defeated your own point. you said bis is punk.

Um, have you seen a bis concert? They're not oshare. They're a punk band.

[カレン]

Well I'm bored. Your backpedaling is only somewhat amusing.

My argument: bis is not oshare
Your argument: bis is not punk

Glad to know we're on the same page.
I stepped back when you explained your argument. So I backed up my side with a false claim, and I admitted to it. So counter my argument. Define oshare and we can call it a night.

I also never tried to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. If you think that you REALLY need to learn some reading comprehension. It's opinion. People can agree with me, they can agree with you, they can disagree with both of us.

I'm merely trying to uncover the hypocrisy in your own bullshit.

[Vessicator]

Try? Then by all means, try all night. I've already done so, more than once I might add.

wiki.theppn.org/Oshare-kei

defined.

But before you go ahead and talk about how this is just 'opinions, opinions', you haven't done one thing to support your claim that bis is not oshare-kei, other than hand out wiki articles. You have not made any personal observations (other than saying you've been to bis concerts, among others, which we're supposed to accept as valid data) about their music or style to prove that they are not oshare-kei. Just remember that stating an opinion goes along the lines of 'I think that this...' (implying that you refer to your personal opinion only, regardless of what other people think), whereas shoving your belief down someone's throat is "No; it's not this, it's..." (implying that another person's opinion is wrong, and that your statement is right).

Reading comprehension? lol

[カレン]

Once again you skirt around giving your own definition.

Why bis is not oshare.

1. Your stating that they incorporate Japanese street fashion is not the current sense of what is oshare. Take 176BIZ for example. They are considered oshare because Tara was in Panic Channel. They dress pretty "normal visual" to me. They also sound pretty generic as well. No hints of oshare there. If you base oshare on looks, then you have to say that Lupo Label is oshare, and they are clearly not. By the same token there are people who still call Soroban oshare yet "complain" that Zoro is too "poppy" for them. So which is it, fashion or genre? If it's a fashion then they are far from the oshare look. bis =/= http://zeroasakura.blogcindario.com/ficheros/irokuip.jpg
2. You stated bis were pop-rock, which I can agree with. That does not automatically make them oshare, obviously. Ellegarden is not oshare. If we base it on sound, there is no "oshare" genre. baroque sounds different than Vinett, they sound different than Irokui, and it goes on.
3. So it comes back to my claim that there is neither genre nor fashion in visual, it all has to do with scene. I mentioned before that bis has a tendency to play with lynch., Rentrer en Soi, girugamesh, etc. They also have a tendency to play with 176BIZ, I've noticed. But as far as their lives go, it is not an oshare experience. You do certain furi for certain types of music. Heavier music gets actual headbanging and moshing, generic visual gets generic hand movements, and oshare gets a lot of cutesy dancing. bis falls into the whole headbanging and moshing aspect.

You said that "every rock concert has a bunch of stupid kids that spin around pushing each other." That may be true for overseas, but there's a certain etiquette at certain concerts in Japan. That's how you determine what specific scene a band is in.

No, my experience at lives should not be taken as fact. Use your own experience at lives in Japan, if you ever get the chance. You'll learn pretty quick what visual REALLY is.

[Vessicator]

The only reason I 'skirt around' giving my own definition is that simply: why waste time when someone else has already done it? I agree with the definition given at wiki.theppn, so why bother trying to summarize what has already been summarized?

I never said Ellegarden was oshare-kei. They're the 'Sum-41' of j-rock; how is that oshare? bis sounds generic. Their lyrics deal the lighter aspects of everyday life. Their music is optimistic, sometimes uplifting even (Color of Mind, DAYS, Go Akkustik). Simplistic bass-line, bpm significantly slower than your everyday political-punk bands, duration of music usually spanning 5 minutes (give or take), yeah, I'd associate that with oshare-kei.

Whoever consideres 176BIZ oshare because Tara used to be in Panic*CHANNEL is a dumbass. I'm not saying that, if bis isn't oshare in one aspect, it must be another. The band pulls certain characteristics in the visual, musical, and stylistic aspects of Oshare-kei. That they simply play with girugamesh or lynch., or even that you find moshpits and headbanging (makes no fucking sense. how the fuck do you headbang to bis?) as a commodity in their concerts, does not dismiss the possibility that they are oshare-kei. Then again, it doesn't dismiss the possibility that they are not oshare-kei. Honestly though, I don't believe you when you say that people headbang and mosh to bis. If it's true that bis fans do, then I'd decapitate all of them with piano wire.

But all in all, tl;dr. We have concluded that bis is not punk, so I am satisfied, despite the fact that I am an avid bis fan. I listened to (and was a fan of) Blink-182 and a medley of other punk bands; I was wondering just how much bullshit you were going to throw at me.

As for your closing statement, lol to that. I do not prioritize my spending on going to Japan and paying more than my share of money just to see a band perform at a live; I enjoy the music, not the faggotry kthx. Learning what visual REALLY is? what a weeaboo. I accept the fact that I am not Japanese and will never conform to such laughable cultures just for the sake of being accepted.

PS:


that's not ?

[カレン]

LOL yes I am a weeaboo so I can be accepted by the masses of morons who plague Japanese culture.

FYI I think Japan sucks. I still like the language, which is why I went in the first place. Going to lives was a hobby, not a lifestyle like some people make it. I also like maybe 10 bands tops? Because the rest are fucking terrible. I usually went to lives to laugh about how bad they were.

And yea, they headbang to bis. They also headbang to heidi. I never said the Japanese fangirls make sense. I hate them 99% of the time. I'm just trying to say I think it's funny when people try to justify what they think visual is when they have no experience in it.

"I listened to (and was a fan of) Blink-182 and a medley of other punk bands." So now you're admitting to what you so vehemently denied before? Please, the only one spouting bullshit is you.

If you're so adamant it's just about the music, then why did you attack me over what punk is? If it's *just* music, what does it matter what I consider punk?

Seriously, get over yourself. So you appreciate music? But not the scene? Okay, makes perfect sense to me.

[Vessicator]

No, I don't consider Blink-182 punk; I simply made an incorrect statement. So I'll recant and restate it: "I listened to (and was a fan of) Blink-182 and some punk bands".

You tell me that the reason you sparked an argument over the genre of bis is simply for fun. I'm telling you that I attacked your opinion of what punk is simply for fun. Because I think it's funny when people try to justify what they think punk is when they have no experience in it.

LOL yes I am a weeaboo so I can be accepted by the masses of morons who plague Japanese culture.

FYI I think Japan sucks. I still like the language, which is why I went in the first place. Going to lives was a hobby, not a lifestyle like some people make it. I also like maybe 10 bands tops? Because the rest are fucking terrible. I usually went to lives to laugh about how bad they were.

Wow. Expensive hobby. So you flew out from NJ all the way to Japan to laugh at how terrible the bands were?lol how obvious.

But as for idiot Japanese fangirls headbanging to bis and heidi.? I think I'll only believe it when I see it. Something like this just gives me more reason to hate the scene, but still love the music. <3

[カレン]

No, I flew out to Japan to learn Japanese, moron. I went to lives because there was nothing else to do since Tokyo fucking sucks. If I wasn't in school, or hanging out with my host family, or climbing mountains for the hell of it, I went to a few lives. Yea totally just like those people who spent their entire income on travelling around just to see the bands they like. In fact, I'm still doing it. Yep, look at me flying out to Japan for New Year's just to see a single live just like all of LJ. Only... not.

And I'm aware we both started the argument for the sake of arguing. Um, that's what people do on this forum obviously. And I know your type exactly, which is why I called you out on your hypocrisy. Don't claim to know everything when you don't. I already admitted I wasn't schooled in genres. But my argument wasn't about genre, it was about the visual/oshare scene. Which, since you care so little about, you know nothing of it.

But I'm glad to know my finding a flaw in your logic made you retract your entire argument and ONCE AGAIN return to the "punk/not punk" thing. Seriously, try fucking with the other morons on this forum. I'm not one of them, although you may think so.

Oh yea, I TOTALLY LOVES ME SOME ANIMEZ. AND POCKY. HOLY SHIT JAPAN IS AWESOME.

Really, is calling me a weeaboo the best you could come up with? Try a real insult next time, one actually grounded in fact. Oh wait... this is the internet. Obviously you know everything about me from what I write. Of course, how silly of me

[lovetrick]

Punk is a guy on I Love New York 2

[Vessicator]

No, I flew out to Japan to learn Japanese, moron. I went to lives because there was nothing else to do since Tokyo fucking sucks. If I wasn't in school, or hanging out with my host family, or climbing mountains for the hell of it, I went to a few lives. Yea totally just like those people who spent their entire income on travelling around just to see the bands they like. In fact, I'm still doing it. Yep, look at me flying out to Japan for New Year's just to see a single live just like all of LJ. Only... not.

And I'm aware we both started the argument for the sake of arguing. Um, that's what people do on this forum obviously. And I know your type exactly, which is why I called you out on your hypocrisy. Don't claim to know everything when you don't. I already admitted I wasn't schooled in genres. But my argument wasn't about genre, it was about the visual/oshare scene. Which, since you care so little about, you know nothing of it.

But I'm glad to know my finding a flaw in your logic made you retract your entire argument and ONCE AGAIN return to the "punk/not punk" thing. Seriously, try fucking with the other morons on this forum. I'm not one of them, although you may think so.

Oh yea, I TOTALLY LOVES ME SOME ANIMEZ. AND POCKY. HOLY SHIT JAPAN IS AWESOME.

Really, is calling me a weeaboo the best you could come up with? Try a real insult next time, one actually grounded in fact. Oh wait... this is the internet. Obviously you know everything about me from what I write. Of course, how silly of me

lolwut

I never claimed to know everything. I'm only saying you don't.

I never retracted my entire argument. You even made that point yourself.

My argument: bis is not oshare
Your argument: bis is not punk

We never argued about the visual/oshare scene. We argued about bis's genre.

If you think that you REALLY need to learn some reading comprehension.

And now I don't know why you're on the rag about this. If being culturally aware of foreign underground scenes celebrated by teenage girls makes you feel better about yourself, that's fine with me.

And I know your type exactly, which is why I called you out on your hypocrisy.

Oh wait... this is the internet. Obviously you know everything about me from what I write.

I don't understand how you can openly contradict yourself and still be sarcastic. Not as stupid as I think you are?

Yeah, my opinion of you was clearly an understatement.